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Lots of atheists, more Muslims, fewer Christians and Jews: this is the new America

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42 replies to this topic

#41
Ahmad\

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it is not a 'matter of perception' when people's lives are being ruined for ridiculous beliefs....look around you..... for believing that some guy in the sky does not exist...it is death. that is ridiculous....you can agree or disagree with whether gays can have kids or not....or people can chose to ingest something versus somehting else but you cannot say its a matter of perception when basic rights are eroded for a belief system.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion, however

It is STILL totally a matter of perception. One can equally argue that no ones life is being ruined here; even if it is so then what was happening in past centuries? would you argue that was ruining too?  You consider something as 'ridiculous belief'....fine, you have a right to form an opinion but you can't shove it down other people throat here that 'no, it is beyond just opinion'. This to me is total intolerance. If you can't tolerate others' opinion, how would it be fair to ask same tolerance for yourself?


"But the thing about Ronaldo... Ronaldo could play for Millwall, QPR, Doncaster Rovers or anyone and he'd score a hat-trick. I'm not sure Messi could do it." - Sir Alex Ferguson


#42
maverick86

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Thanks for sharing your opinion, however

It is STILL totally a matter of perception. One can equally argue that no ones life is being ruined here; even if it is so then what was happening in past centuries? would you argue that was ruining too?  You consider something as 'ridiculous belief'....fine, you have a right to form an opinion but you can't shove it down other people throat here that 'no, it is beyond just opinion'. This to me is total intolerance. If you can't tolerate others' opinion, how would it be fair to ask same tolerance for yourself?

see above what i said in my reply to electric..... person A may believe there is no deity ....person B does....say person B constitutes the view of the majority of the people in that region....does it then make it right for the government in that region to kill person A because of what he believes....i am not talking religion per se....i am talking jurisprudence and constitutional morality.



#43
Electric

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you make an assumption about my beliefs. I am not talking about a scholarly disagreement i am talking about 295-C.....about the Hudood ordinance. I am talking application here which is a big big problem. As for people who are not behaving like 'proper muslims'.... do you? Does anyone ever? have you never lied? have you never interacted with a 'na mehram' ? i mean it is impossible to do things like that these days yet people are unwilling to move forward.

 

As for islam to be a 'messed up' religion there are a bunch of controversial issues that can be raked up....but this is not the platform for that. 

 

My point is simple, live and let live..... let people do what they choose to without policing their every move - hijab no hijab, prayer or prayer, observation of ramazan or not....it should be up to the individual - it should not be enforced by things such as the 'ehteraam-e-ramadan' ordinance. these are just a few, varied things that i have a problem with (what is not in discussion here is religion itself. criticism of that is a separate question which if you please i may broach with you) when it comes to utilizing a certain belief system.....islam, judaism, christianity, rastafarianism, anything under the sun ....when you create a society and a constitution.

@underlined- go ahead, I will try my best to discuss, although it is not my favourite topic but still.

 

I dont think these things make anyone a non muslim they make a person simply human for committing mistakes. As far as I remember, these things are still forgiven but the only thing that is not forgiven is shirk. Pls correct me if im wrong. I agree it is impossible not to do these things but it is still possible to avoid them. I wont speak for myself because I feel im no where a near practicing Muslim but there are people who actually follow these principals and still be able to function normally. The point is not about being the good muslim or the bad muslim, the point is if you are practicing enough. And what I was trying to say in my previous post was that people under the name of Islam do many things but their intentions are totally different.
I did not intend make a wrong assumption about your beliefs, I was under the impression that you also gave up believing on a religion you once followed.  If this is still correct, deep down you do not appreciate what you are being made to follow because the people around you expect you to, its the same thing about those people who are following the religion without understanding why or hate it but still have to do it because of the surroundings. So whether or not they say it or do not say it, it doesnt really matter in the end of the day if their intentions arent right to begin with.


 


Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Verily, my Salat (prayer), my sacrifice, my living, and my dying are for Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists). [6:162]





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